Tie Rod Ends/Ball Joints

[MuddnMason]

How do you know when to replace these? When the tie rod ends wiggle on the joint?

[TRHOD]

I can't really tell you about the tie rods, but the ball joints, when you remove them from the swing arm should turn freely and smoothly.

When I tore my front end apart this spring, I had 2 ball joints on the left side that were questionable, so I replaced them. I do a ton of snow plowing, so I guess that was probably the culprit.


Blessings,

[Jake]

Tie rod ends and ball joints are both a "ball and socket" type of joint. For a visual reference, have a look at a trailer hitch and trailer ball. The "stud" is kind of like the trailer ball, with the nut on the bottom and the ball on the top. The "cup" is kind of like the trailer's coupler, that is set over the ball and locked in place. The difference is that these are not removeable from the ball like the trailer's coupler is.

Tie rods shouldn't be allowed to get more than 3/32 inch of play. (Look honestly at a ruler, it's just less than an eighth, and it isn't that much). An eighth should be considered dangerous and reason to ground the bike until repairs can be made.

Ball joints are tricky to "gauge", but here's a good rule of thumb: Right from new, they have a bit of axial play. that means, you can push the stud into the cup just a little bit. That is like lifting the trailer's coupler straight UP off of the ball hitch). That is normal. There should be ZERO radial play. That means, you should NOT be able to make the cup move sideways on the stud. That is like taking the trailer's coupler and trying to move it left or right).

Also, any ball joint that develops a heavy squeak or grinding noise when it moves should be replaced immediately. They get mud and dirt, which "wedges" the ball into the socket, and can actually fatigue and break the stud right off in a short time.

[MuddnMason]

Thanks Jake. I'm thinking it may be time for replacement. Last time I was down at the front end poking around, I noticed one of the locker nuts on my tie rod was loose. Naturally I tightened it back down, but I did note that the tie rod end had motion to it. Left to right vertical. Picture a seesaw with the ball joint being the pivot.

[Jake]

muddnmason said:

...Left to right vertical...

Yeah, what you said.

I guess I'm not following, because I'm sure that makes perfect sense if I could picture it.

The whole tie rod assembly (Inner tie rod end, tie rod, outer tie rod end) should "twist" a bit. When the ends are lined up correctly you should be able to turn it about one "hex" of the lock nut. It's designed that way to accomodate differences in angles as the suspension and the steering both move through their relative artiulations. I'm thinking that is what you are referring to, and that's quite normal.
Actually, if the joints are lined up incorrectly (One wedged all the way forward, one wedged all the way back), then that would be the number one cause of loose lock nuts, since the suspension and steering both move with enough force to "unscrew" a tightened tie rod end.

The play that I'm talking about is when the socket is worn so that it is larger than the ball. Like taking your trailer with a two inch coupler, and hitching it up to a truck equipped with a 1 7/8 ball hitch. That is the play that leads up to separation.

You don't mean that nut on the bottom that holds the tie rod end to the knuckle, do you? Those "nut, self locking's" are pretty forgiving as far as backing off. If that loosened up, consider that you should carefully examine the mounting hole and the stud portion of the tie rod end as well, and be absolutely sure that there's enough left to get a good firm grip when you assemble it. Odds are that the tie rod end stud was bent or the knuckle hole was "gaulled" and the nut is actually right where it was put.

[MuddnMason]

Okay okay. First, the lock nut I was referring to is the nut that lock the end to the tie rod. For reference, pull the factory manual picture of the complete tie rod assymbly, including ball joints out of your photographic memory. This should be filed under Front Wheel/Suspension/Steering for reference. The picture I am referring to before and here after is the one that shows the "Lock Nut-toThread End Distance A and B. ;D

Now, for the movement. Using the above listed picture, pretend that you are holding the assembly. Hold the ball joint end (threaded part in your hand with you thumb and index. Take your right hand and hold the top of the tie rod end and "rock" it left and right. The end will pivot on the ball like a see saw. I am sure that this movement is normal, just in my case may be excessive due to wear.

[Jake]

Good lord, I can see that picture. Maybe I have done this too much.

FYI, no you can not line up a front end by measuring a tie rod assembly. That only works at the CAD stages. Once they actually build a machine, it doesn't work.

I think I am seeing what you are saying:
If you leave the bike totally assembled, and remove nothing, but place a wrench on that lock nut, and VERY GENTLY rotate that lock nut forward and back, but not hard enough to crack it loose, does that duplicate the motion you are describing?

[MuddnMason]

Yes, that would duplicate it. I cant remove the end from the ball joint by doing this, because it is not THAT worn out, but I can take my hand and move the tie rod end on the ball joint as described above. No wrench needed. I think what I am going to do, is when I get the money to do it, I am gonna do a front end over haul. I'm will be doing the rear in a couple of weeks, new bearings and seals, etc. Front next. I am going to go ahead and replace the tie rods, ends, ball joints, bearings, etc. etc. etc.

[MuddnMason]

As for the measurement in the picture, I was just using that to tell you exactly which picture to pull from the filing cabinet in your head! ;D