Define excessive

[MuddnMason]

I need someone to define "excessive movement" as far as the front wheel bearings r concerned. I can move the wheels some and, when the wheel is off and I turn the axle, it feels as though I can feel the individual ball bearings turning inside.

[Jake]

First, find the play. Ball joints and control arm bushings offer the same motion at the tire as would be casued by the wheel bearing being excessively worn.

Jack the front of the bike off of the ground. Then either by yourserlf (can be done) or with help (much easier), grab the front tire at the twelve and six o'clock position. Look for relative motion between the outer (near the wheel) CV joint and the knuckle (and brake backing plate). If you think tightening up the axle nut at the end of the CV joint will solve the problem, you are wrong, the wheel bearing has failed.
So that's where I believe you're at. There is no "spec" for bearing play. They're good or they're bad. In the real world however, when they're new, they're tight as can be. Then they settle in to a "comfortable" amount of play, where they'll last three times as long as they did at the "new" stage. I don't change them because they play just a hair. My own rule of thumb is that if the CV joint (measured about the middle, kind of awkward, use your imagination or judgement) will move one sizteenth of an inch, then it's time to change, BEFORE it locks up, ruins the knuckle, etc. I seldom fix every worn thing at once so I don't know what movement that would yield at the tire tread, but if the bushings and ball joints are 100% tight (I doubt it on a Foreman) then I would expect roughly a quarter inch or just a hair more measired at the tire tread.


Now, as for "feeling" the ball bearings, do you feel it (roughly) three times per wheel revolution? If so then you are feeling a bearing of sorts, but it's different than you would think. It's the inner CV joint. It's actually not a true CV joint however, and it uses three bearings on a tripod type holder at the inside end of the CV shaft. The bearings lock into three straight grooves in the inner tulip (the green part that you see), and thus allow in and out movement as well as an angle in the rotation. You will feel a little bump from that. If you have a lift kit, it will be exaggerated, and you may actually feel the axle shaft "rolling" along the outside lip of the tulip (and fallinng into the three groves, one at a time). That's how the commercial lift kits know when enough is enough, is when the CV shaft just barely touches at full droop. DIY guys can tell you that there's quite a bit of "bend" in that shaft if you choose to lift higher.

[MuddnMason]

Thanks for the reply Jake.

Let me tell you what has transpired. Yesterday I noticed a ticking/clicking sound in the front end. I got off the bike, and moved it forward and backward, and determined that this sound was coming from the left wheel. I went back home and jacked the front end up. With my hands at the 12/6 position on the tire, I could pull the 6 oclock hand out toward my body moving the tire out a little. The same with the top. Also, I noticed that my disc brake system "wiggles" some like everything that it is attached to is loose.

[Jake]

OK, I guess I'm not getting what's loose.

Let me try stating this a little differently.

The steering knuckle, the brake caliper bracket, and the backing plate (if you have one) are attached to the OUTSIDE half of the wheel bearing.

The brake rotor, the lug studs, and the outer CV joint are attached to the INSIDE half of the wheel bearing.

If something from the second list appears "disconnected" from something on the first list, that means the wheel bearing has failed.

If the first and second list appear to be firmly attached to each other, but the whole assembly moves in and out, then look carefully at the ball joints. If you're not familliar with those, the part with the nut screw on it looks like a miniature trailer ball, and the larger part should be snug around it, allowing it to move in any direction in a very controlled fasion, but not to have any looseness between the two, such as you would have if teh "trailer ball" piece had worn its self a size or two too small.

[MuddnMason]

Gottcha!! I'll have to look at it tomorrow when I get off work.

[TRHOD]

Mason,

Sound alot like what my bike was doing. I got new bearings thinking that was the problem. While I had the knuckle off, for grins and giggles, I grabbed the ball joints, gave 'em a little tug and twist, and they were shot. The bearings on the left side was in good shape, but the bearing on the right side had rust on the bearing and balls. Guess I lucked out on that one, but the wiggle was from the ball joints, not the bearings.

Good luck with your dilemna and let us know how you make out.
TRHOD

[MuddnMason]

Well to give update, I changed my oil and all Wednesday, going ridin Thursday, and while I was at it, I got down on the front end, and began checking some things. Maybe ya'll can help me narrow down from here, even though I think it is about as narrow as it can get now. I grabbed the axles going into the wheel bearing, and gave a shake, as well as the whole front end for that matter, and ALL of the movement was isolated to the the axle going into the bearing. Not much of anything else was moving. The left side is worse than the right. However, I did notice that one of the ball joints was loose...

[Jake]

Then you have your answer. You'll need a couple of wheel bearings and at least one ball joint.

[MuddnMason]

By loose, I mean the lock nut had backed off. I tightened it, but didnt help much. Thanks for your help Jake, I appreciate it.

[Jake]

Which is loose?

If the ball joint nuts are loose, then you'll want to check out the hole that they are mounted in, because that part (knuckle or control arm) will <probably> be galled out and need to be replaced.
If the axle nut is loose, no sweat, it's probably not "loosened up" really, but rather the bearing has "shrunk" underneath it. And no, it's not that kind of wheel bearing, you can't tighten out the "slop".

[MuddnMason]

I should have been more precise. The lock nut on the ball joint had backed off a little. I'm probably going to get a whole new knuckle for it and forget about it.

-->> Speaking of a new knuckle, does anyone know if the knuckles that Yasky sells comes with a sealed bearing? From what I read in the description, it did not say anything about this.

[FLIPSTICK]

Just to let you know there is one on eBay for sale with ball joints and bearings(probably not sealed though)

[Jake]

I firmly believe (but have no proof or concrete evidence) that the knuckles available outside of the Honda network are from Honda suppliers, and would therefore be original replacement with the original externally sealed bearings, not the internally sealed ones.