2001 450S..bunch of questions

[TRHOD]

Hello, all. Well I finally got all the parts I needed to fix the foreman from my rollover this spring and am about to tackle getting it back in ship shape. I've got the service manual, and have looked it over pretty well, but any pearls of wisdom you can pass on to me would be much appriciated. Here's my questions and what I'm doing.

1> Preplace the headlight case and speedometer cover-- This appears to be straightforward.
2> Remove the steering stem and lube the steering bearings and bushings I figure while I've got the headlight off I may as well do this. The steering seems to be getting a little tight. Any thoughts would be cool.
3> Check out left front brake for water--After the last trip, the left front wheel was doing a little chirping. It sounds very much like a previous sound I had when water got into the drum and messed up the drum (rust). Before my last trip in the spring I tore both front wheels apart, replaced bearings and ball joints and greased up the drums to seal them from water. How often do you-all pull your drums? Should I be doing it everytime I go out? We got into some water, but it wasn't like I was drowning the bike the whole trip. What are your thoughts?
4> Correct the overexaggerated toe-out on the left wheel This has been like this for sometime, but I'm noticing a pretty bad wear pattern on the left front tire. Any thoughts on this would be great. I have an idea of what I need to do, but am pretty shakey on this one.
5> Check and adjust the valves I figure that it's about time for this, since I haven't even thought about them since the 10hr servicing Please tell me I don't have to remove the gas tank, et al to do this?
6> Bleed/Replace brake fluid Again, something that is long overdue.

And if that don't take me till winter, I'm gonna do the brake light conversion.

Well, all this and the stuff I've got to do to my VTX should keep me out of the little ladies hair for a while. Hopefully, I'll be able to stay out of trouble that way.

Any thoughts or pearls of wisdom you might have for me before I start into these would be really cool.

I'll keep you posted.

Blessings,

[MuddnMason]

Personnally, if I had about $350 dollars laying around, I would get disc brakes and not worry with water and crud getting in them any more. Xtreme Products (XPATV) (what I have) is a little cheaper than HL, and it is a better design. Thicker, solid rotor to be exact. Bolt on installation. They are about to come out with a rear brake kit, which, unlike HL will be controlled by BOTH the foot pedal and handle.

[Jake]

The steering stem might be tight at the top bushing. Before you get too far in to it however, knock the tie rods off and see if each front knuckle "steers" easily. Ball joints can fool you pretty good here if they're packed up with crud. Then if it truely is the stem that's tight, open up the top bushing, CLEAN OUT THE DUST AND MUD, then lubricate it as you see fit. A small piece of .010 inch shim stock (or a rusted, therefore useless feeler gauge of about that size) with a hole drilled for the bolt can be used to hold out the upper bushing clamp just a hair, thus very nearly eliminating the possibility of that bushing getting tight.

When you go to do the valves, yes you do have to remove the gas tank. I've seen a guy do it without, but I'll guarantee it isn't worth it for the added time, frustration, aggrivation, and dirt in the engine.. It takes ten or fifteen minutes to remove or install the tank and the associated plastics. TIP-The tank cover (black, around the fuel filler), the left side cover (body color,says "FOREMAN"), and the right side cover (Body color, says "FOREMAN") will all come off as one single unit. They are screwed together from the inside, and will break if you try to separate them on the bike. Also, watch carefully how the little "flaps" are located under there. They lay back in easily, but correct orientation really helps keep crap out of the (stock) intake.

As for the toe, be careful. One tire wearing? That's NOT toe. The toe out is very large on these machines is very large at a maximum of one and fifteen sixteenths of an inch. One wheel CAN NOT toe out more than another. The tires will "average out" and the bike will not drive straight unless the right tire angles right the same amount that the left tire angles left. (One tire toed out would simply be more toe overall, and crooked bars when driving in a straight line, and would wear both tires). Wear on one tire is most always rider habit (not necessarily bad ones), specific terrain that would affect only one side, or caster and camber angle faults (these are not adjustable, and indicate bent or broken parts).

[MuddnMason]

Ted, just save yourself the headache and buy Jake a plane ticket to Ohio....

[TRHOD]

jake said:

The steering stem might be tight at the top bushing. Before you get too far in to it however, knock the tie rods off and see if each front knuckle "steers" easily. Ball joints can fool you pretty good here if they're packed up with crud.
This spring when I put the new front bearings in I checked the ball joints and replaced the upper and lower on the left side. The right ones were still in pretty good shape. I remember reading about cleaning and greasing the top bushing and was gonna do this. I wanted to take a look at the steering bearings. You see I've got a VTX 1300 and honda put cheap ball bearings in this bike that look like beefed up schwin bicycle stem bearings. Recently, I replaced these ball bearing with tapered roller bearings and MAN WHAT A DIFFERENCE IT MADE. I wanted to see if this was the same case with my foreman. Like I said I'm gonna have the whole front of the bike off, so It seems like this is as good a time as any to take a look at these bearings and replace or lubricate them.

Then if it truely is the stem that's tight, open up the top bushing, CLEAN OUT THE DUST AND MUD, then lubricate it as you see fit. A small piece of .010 inch shim stock (or a rusted, therefore useless feeler gauge of about that size) with a hole drilled for the bolt can be used to hold out the upper bushing clamp just a hair, thus very nearly eliminating the possibility of that bushing getting tight.

When you go to do the valves, yes you do have to remove the gas tank. I've seen a guy do it without, but I'll guarantee it isn't worth it for the added time, frustration, aggrivation, and dirt in the engine.. It takes ten or fifteen minutes to remove or install the tank and the associated plastics. TIP-The tank cover (black, around the fuel filler), the left side cover (body color,says "FOREMAN"), and the right side cover (Body color, says "FOREMAN") will all come off as one single unit. They are screwed together from the inside, and will break if you try to separate them on the bike. Also, watch carefully how the little "flaps" are located under there. They lay back in easily, but correct orientation really helps keep crap out of the (stock) intake.

Thanks for the tip. I'm sure I'd have this all busted up

As for the toe, be careful. One tire wearing? That's NOT toe. The toe out is very large on these machines is very large at a maximum of one and fifteen sixteenths of an inch. One wheel CAN NOT toe out more than another. The tires will "average out" and the bike will not drive straight unless the right tire angles right the same amount that the left tire angles left. (One tire toed out would simply be more toe overall, and crooked bars when driving in a straight line, and would wear both tires). Wear on one tire is most always rider habit (not necessarily bad ones), specific terrain that would affect only one side, or caster and camber angle faults (these are not adjustable, and indicate bent or broken parts).

Well, here is the deal with my bike. The left tire is and has been excessively turned out more that the right tire. I've had people ridding in the bed of a truck looking back at my bike comment on this. But the thing is the handlebars are straight, the bike runs straight and true. I've been thinking for a long time, If it ain't broke..........but now I'm seeing the tire wear on the left tire and think I need to do something about it.

Jake,

Thanks for all your input. I'm hoping to get started on this next week sometime. As I get into it I may be shooting you guys a couple of questions. I'll keep you posted on the progress.

Blessings,

[TRHOD]

muddnmason said:

Ted, just save yourself the headache and buy Jake a plane ticket to Ohio....

ROTFLMAO ;D ;D

You're killing me (LOL)

That certainly would take the PITA out of the project, wouldn't it.

Blessings,

[MuddnMason]

Most definetly!!!

[Jake]

With your allignment, I am not in a position to doubt that one wheel does appear to toe out during straight ahead travel. My guess is that one or both front wheels have a camber issue. Maybe something that you can "bend back", isolate to a bent control arm, or something along that line. Perhaps something that you can identify and or straighten, perhaps something better left alone, or perhaps minimal enough that you won't find it at all. You should look carefully. If you do adjust the toe of one wheel individually, the bars will become crooked. Consider that setting it up to "equalize" the wear may be the most cost and time effective method, since both front tires really should be replaced at the same time.
I've also seen somewhat of a quirk a few times (or at least that is what I believe it to be) on a full time four machine, where something starts a "wear pattern" on one front wheel, and with reduced traction from the wear pattern, that one wheel is the one that virtually always "gives" to release driveline tension over varried terrain and corners and such. Because the worn wheel usually slips first, it continues to wear faster. You may be able to repair the original problem, but not see the good results until your next set of tires. Maybe not too, I havn't seen it happen enough to make a "science" out of it.

[TRHOD]

Gotcha Jake,

I'll take all this into consideration. I may just leave well enough alone unless I find something way out of wack.

Thanks again.
Blessings,

[MuddnMason]

Ted, how did all this maintainence go? Wish you had just bought the plane ticket?

[TRHOD]

Sorry I didn't get back to you yet. I haven't completed all on the list yet, too many other things going on has put my foreman list on the back burner.

I did get the left front brake checked out, and it was wet in there again. It is really strange that the left side is the only one that gets water in it. I've even tried replacing the seals to no avail.

I got the steering stem pulled apart and did the top bushing clean and lube. Man, I'll tell you what. If you haven't done this or haven't done it in a while, it is WELL WORTH THE EFFORT. My bike turns slicker that snot on a doorknob now (I know, that's kind of a nasty thought). I did take the hole steering assembly apart, but to be honest with you, I didn't need to. The bearing in the bottom was a-ok, it was that top bushing that was the culprit.

Got the headlight/speedometer pod all fixed up. Man, it is find of nice not having to look at the speedo thru cracked plastic.

Valves are right on the money with almost 300hrs on the bike.

I didn't get a chance to change the brake fluid, or check out the toe problem.

All in all, it was well worth the effort. I'm sure if I'd of bought Jake's plane ticket it would have been interesting, but even a novice wrench like myself felt pretty at ease with what I did.

Well, I'm getting ready to take another trip down to Man WVa. Leaving thurs, and be back Sunday. We'll see what new mechanical adventures I can get myself into after this trip. lol

Blessings,

[MuddnMason]

I just bought some new rear brake shoes myself. I got to thinking that since I am just about gonna tear the whole thing down, I might as well change all the bearings and seals on the rear while Im at it.

[TRHOD]

Phil,

Yeah, know what you mean. I did my rear brakes last fall. I probably should have done the same, although I haven't heard of the rear bearings going bad, just the front.

A little pearl for you. When you put the new pads in put some grease on the back of the pad. When I got mine all back together and was testing it out I had the most abnouxious sound. It almost sounded like a train horn when I hit the brakes. My nephew told me about greasing the back of the pads, so I ripped it apart again, applied the grease and all was good.

Blessings,

[MuddnMason]

Mental notes taken!